England USA

After watching tonights game against Mexico I am undecided on how much money to have on the England USA game.

I know the Chelsea players were missing and a couple of players (Rooney & Gerrard) looked like they was playing within themselves, but I thought for a team that is said to be sure fire things against the USA, I am truly tempted to take a large lump of the 11/2-7/1 u can find on the US beating our shower of s***.

When u look at the 3 goals we scored - 2 of them, 2nd n third would have been saved by a normal sized goalkeeper n not the midgit they had in goal.

When u look at the chances they got from our crappy defence - you have to think on another night we are going to ship a few goals.

OK, I will have 50 on the US to win n 15 on the draw at 100\30 as a saver.

Milner is overrated, Carrick doesn't even deserve to be there and King has been alright this season, but still prefer Terry and Rio.

Crouch and Rooney is definitely the most effective front starting 2.

Johnson makes himself look better than he is because of his ability going forward.

Didn't see the game, it was just ending by the time I got home.

But regarding your bet on USA.

Don't under rate Mexico. They are just as good as the Americans. Mexico and the USA have finished 1-2 in our region for years and it is always 50/50 on who will finish first and games between them are highly competitive close encounters usually determined by where they are played. There is not much to choose between those two teams.

By all accounts the score flattered England who didn't play that well, but this was not the team that will start against the Americans in South Africa. I don't know if Mexico fielded a full team tonight and it while it does seem they played fairly well, they still got beat by a weakened under preforming England side.

I can't see the Americans beating England and feel you would be throwing away your money if you bet on the USA. A draw is an outside possibility, first game of the World Cup, both teams playing it a little conservative, and the Americans happy with a draw and likely playing for one. However, I still think England beats the USA.

Redcanuck wrote:

I can't see the Americans beating England and feel you would be throwing away your money if you bet on the USA. A draw is an outside possibility, first game of the World Cup, both teams playing it a little conservative, and the Americans happy with a draw and likely playing for one. However, I still think England beats the USA.

Seems like you are one of the minds who have the USA game as a win.

What evidence do you have which gives you confidence that we are sure far things with only a outside chance of the U S getting a draw?

I expect the Americans to qualify for the next round but feel that they will be cagey in how they approach the game with England and that makes it unlikely that they will beat England. They will feel that they can get positive results against Algeria and Slovenia and won't take any chances against England. They will set up for the draw and try to limit damages. A draw with England would certainly send the USA through to the next round as likely would a one goal defeat.

It's not a case of over rating England here, I just don't think the Americans are any stronger than Mexico. The have better keepers and their defense is solid if not spectacular, but they have a couple of defenders coming back from injury and don't have a left back.

Bob Bradley isn't highly though of over here and doesn't seem to have a plan B when things are not going well and this USA team will struggle to score goals. Charlie Davis their best striker misses the World Cup through injury leaving Dempsy and Donovan the attacking midfielders are their only goal scoring threats.

I think we know what we will get with the USA, but you are basing your reasons why England will win on USA's faults, rather on why England are better.

I dont see why England should be such strong favs against a side who have shown over the years improved performances in World Cups and the last tourlament in South Africa they reached the final against Brazil. I feel that experience will give them an advantage over our boys and makes them a fair bet to get at least a draw against England.

Hey I might be wrong, but I have seen too many so called England sides over rated and expected to deliver these past years, not to understand there are other sides who can exploit us.

Baring in mind, like USA we have players out, beckham barry ect you are still to offer reasons why England are such strong favs - who in the England team gives you so much confidence?

TickTok wrote:

I think we know what we will get with the USA, but you are basing your reasons why England will win on USA's faults, rather on why England are better.
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Exactly, a lot of England's success at this World Cup will be down to the faults of their opposition, I don't think they have to play a good side until the semis.

England will do what they have always done at World Cups, win their group get through the knockout round and will be in a 50/50 situation at the quarters. I think England could be a little more successful at this World Cup and reach the semis, because they got such a favorable draw.

I know that a lot depends on Rio and A. Cole returning from injury, Terry putting his off field problems aside and all three returning to form. But I believe or hope that will happen and if so England will be solid at the back regardless who the right back and keeper is.

Gerrard can't be as bad as he was in the season, Lampard is in great form and Lennon and Walcott 's pace will threaten from the wings. If Barry isn't healthy put Milner in the middle with Lampard and move Gerrard up just behind Rooney who has done great all year as the lone striker.

If everyone plays up to their capabilities, and for most of them this is their last shot at the World Cup, England can put a good starting eleven out there.

I know there are a lot of questions about this team, but if Capello gets them playing as well as they did in qualifiers, then this is not a bad team. In the past England has always hobbled into World Cups injured and tired out. This time most of their injuries are healing and some of their top players have had long rests and none of their players have had a long drawn out European campaign to content with. Through in the weather that will be in their favour, along with the favourable draw and this team should do OK.

They won't win it and are not as good as Spain, Brazil or Argentina but they are as good as anybody else.

Don't forget Italy won it last time with a mediocre team playing average football and getting all the breaks.

Ok, This is how I see England.

We dont have a top class keeper.
We dont have a defensive minded Right Back.
We have one central defender who does not look anything like the player of 2 seasons ago - Rio.
The other central defender is brilliant but for a lack of pace & I am yet to be convinced Rio has that in his locker anymore as he turns like someone who has a bad back. If he cant cover the pace needs next to him - God help us.
We have the best left back in the world.
We have 2 right wide players who have abundance of pace and little end product. Either of them could kill opposition or be a frustrating speed miss.
Our biggest problem of late is losing Barry as the holding midfielder. While he is a lump of lard and as slow as a snail, in the holding position he did have the self control the position needs. The manager obviously likes him too. If he is unfit I believe we have a huge problem if we get into the later stages where better teams will hit us with lightening speed on the break. Milner is a Jack of all trades and not International class in any. He would be a reach in the position, but not as far a reach as playing Ledley King in that position who's performance last night was no suprize to me. He wouldnt even make my top 30, let alone be taken. Carrick has been average all season n in my opinion needs to leave United to get his career back on track. That leaves us with Parker or the big lump from Spurs. The latter wouldnt get in my 35 and Parker should have proved himself by now if he was going to be a solid international. What does that leave, well I heard on the Radio today idiots calling for Frank to be played as the holding midfielder which to me underlines how fucking dumb 99% of football fans are. Yes unlike Gerrard he has the discipline to play there, but its a bit like asking Van Gogh to draw a page for the London A-Z. Whatever the manager does & how he must wish Hargreaves made it, I think this is a huge problem if and when we play better sides.
Left hand side is strange, it looks as thou Johnson will go as a out n out winger. I like him alot and those few minutes last night probably got him on the plane. Joe will probably squeek on the plane to play wide left if needed, but it seems the way the manager sets up his teams Gerrard has the left hand side with the idea to move into the middle making a 3 up front with Rooney, who looks bloody knackerd n injured at the end of every game after carrying Man Utd on his back all season and whoever is guesting with him.

Now if I was the American coach - Id play 4 5 1 and hit us on the break - exploit the lack of natural holding midfielder - much like the Mexicans did with alot of success last night. If I remember correctly, this was the system they played in South Africa last summer and look where it got them.

Donovan n Dempsey could have alot of success against us with their movement between full backs n central defenders - infact I can almost see one of them running away from Johnson with Rio too slow to cover n slipping the ball past A N Other in goal.

I dont think any country fear England - We play our best player out of position and have only 5 or 6 true international class players, one of which, Gerrard is still to prove to me he is worthy of a start this past 4 years.

Most people should realise England have problems in the places you mentioned. I don't have a problem with much of what you say other than calling Terry brilliant. lol

I know that the lack of a holding midfielder could be a killer and that's why it seems they are holding out naming the final 23 so that they can give Barry as much time as possible. I have a feeling that he will end going, not sure how healthy he will be though.

I am not saying they will win the World Cup but because of the draw and of all the so called favourites, England has the easiest path to the semis, they will accomplish what they have always accomplished. The 6 or so talented players they have should see them win a weak group, slip through the knockout which won't be easy against whoever finishes second between Germany Serbia and Ghana, and possibly the quarters, until the meet a team that has superior talent and ends their World Cup.


Where do you see England ending up at this World Cup?

On the Gerrard front he's obviously made it there on past Liverpool performances because this season he was shit for us apart from the last couple of games and he's done shit all in an England shirt.
I watched the game on Monday and he was non existent on the left. If thats the position he has to adapt then he should stay at home and I'd rather play my dead mother there as she'd be more effective!
When he then played inside he got involved in the game which is what he needs to do. Playing behind Rooney as Red suggested is the only viable option if you want to play Gerrard otherwise let his cheeks warm the bench or don't take him.
Frank has shown his class at this level and should be played in his most effective position. Why we have to constantly put quality players in the wrong positions baffle me. Don't they just become a mediocre player or worse in that position thereby replicating what players we have to naturally fill that void?
A team of world class players does not make a world class team. Selection should always be about the team not the individuals...and debate continues....!

Where do I see us ending up?

On paper & strictly on paper, we have a favourable draw.

I think USA will be a very hard nut to get anything out of. They have experience of playing in South Africa and they prepare as well as any other country these days. A first class professional outfit.

Algeria are no mugs who come to South Africa after causing the biggest shock of the African Nations cup with a win over the Ivory Coast. They are a very quick side who could exploit our slow looking defence. You would think we would beat them.

Slovenia are probably the weakest European team and you would expect of the 3 group games the one we should have the most confidence in.

People tell me Germany n England will top their groups - I am not so sure and feel any of the four teams in that group could top it and the runners up will be a good team capable of getting a result against England - Of the four - I wouldnt want to face Ghana who have an abundance of talent to choose from. They had almost a whole team injured before\during the ANC and still got to the final with a bunch of Kids who had just won a world under 21 or whatever age group. Would you want to face the Convicts? I wouldn’t. They would love it & die for the cause in beating us. It would be their final and we would suffer even if we won. Lastly Serbia - Dont know much about their players - but if they are all as good as our Branislav Ivanovic - God help us lol

I think we will get to the last 16, if key players stay fit and our best player is allowed to perform in the correct position. Any decent side will not lose to us in 90 mins - so maybe we can be the penalty kings as weaker sides often prevail this way

As I started off – On paper is a gift of a draw - Last 8 would be wonderful & about right – last 4 unlikely – Final, not while we all still have a hole in our ass!

Group D has four good teams and I am not sure the Germans will win it either . Whoever finishes second and meets England in the knockout round will give England all they can handle. It could turn out to be England's toughest game and you may see extra time or penalties there.

England won it at home in 66, and rode their luck to reach the semis in 90, but traditional England has always been a quarter final team. But if they get through the knockout round, I think they can reach the semis. Only because the only strong team in Groups A and B is Argentina and if Argentina wins Group B as I expect, than they go to the other side of the draw.

Do u know - I have this feeling about Argentina.

So many people in football want the cheating little twat to fail, but I just get this feeling - those Argentina players look upon him as a God - It might just be enough to have them play their hearts out and as you have said - its not like there is alot of teams in their side for them to be worried about.

I have money on them already

Dempsey and Donovan both had strong performance in USA 2-1 win over Turkey.

First half the USA were poor, but in the second half Dempsey dropped into the midfield where he, Donovan, Michael Bradley substitute Jose Torres took a grip on the game.

Donovan set up both goals with the first being a nice run and touch past the 'keeper to set the table for a Jozy Altidore tap in and the second a ball to Dempsey that the Fulham man finished off well.

England's going to have to keep a close rein on Dempsey and Donovan.

Mexico exposed a slow, ragged Italy defense in Mexico's 2-1 victory over Italy today.

Maybe the close England victory over Mexico wasn't that bad after all. Maybe Mexico are better than we think.