Rugby World Cup

If anyone is interested here are the groups.

Starts September 19th.

Pool A
Australia
England
Wales
Fiji
Uruguay

Pool B
South Africa
Samoa
Japan
Scotland
USA

Pool C
New Zealand
Argentina
Tonga
Georgia
Namibia

Pool D
France
Ireland
Italy
Canada
Romania

Group A is the group of death. Although Wales have sustained a few injuries to key players in their warm up games.

Canada will be in tough with that group. We lost to Romania earlier in the year(weaker squad though) so we may not even win a game. We also had a terrible Pacific Nations Cup this year. I'd be happy with 1 win from that pool. Although we could give Italy a run for their money if we're on our game.

New Zealand will be the favourites again, with the Wallabies and SA up there as well. South Africa have a couple of very good players injured right now that might not be ready though. Also, because it's being played in the Northern hemisphere, Teams like England, Ireland and France will all have a shot at it.

Candy_Line_Up wrote:

If anyone is interested here are the groups.

Starts September 19th.

Pool A
Australia
England
Wales
Fiji
Uruguay

Pool B
South Africa
Samoa
Japan
Scotland
USA

Pool C
New Zealand
Argentina
Tonga
Georgia
Namibia

Pool D
France
Ireland
Italy
Canada
Romania

Group A is the group of death. Although Wales have sustained a few injuries to key players in their warm up games.

Canada will be in tough with that group. We lost to Romania earlier in the year(weaker squad though) so we may not even win a game. We also had a terrible Pacific Nations Cup this year. I'd be happy with 1 win from that pool. Although we could give Italy a run for their money if we're on our game.

New Zealand will be the favourites again, with the Wallabies and SA up there as well. South Africa have a couple of very good players injured right now that might not be ready though. Also, because it's being played in the Northern hemisphere, Teams like England, Ireland and France will all have a shot at it.

Man...how did South Africa score that pool B? A and D look ridiculous. I haven't been following much rugby in the last five or so years, but I will be up for this. England v Fiji today will be fun.

There's some interesting stadiums being used. City's Etihad hosts a match between England and Uruguay seven days before City host Bournemouth at home. Old Trafford was supposed to host three matches, but wisely Manchester United kiboshed that. I'll never forget Fergie's rage the one year they used the ground for a rugby final and it was torn to pieces.

Opening ceremonies on here now. Now much of a rugby fan but did end up watching a lot the year England won. Actually started to understand the strategy by the final. Seems it is all about field position. Will catch a few games if it dosen't clash with the football.

Redcanuck wrote:

Opening ceremonies on here now.  Now much of a rugby fan but did end up watching a lot the year England won.  Actually started to understand the strategy by the final.  Seems it is all about field position.  Will catch a few games if it dosen't clash with the football.

It's great tactically and strategically because it's all about controlling the ball. The tactical kicking game is what gets me now. Especially with SA...any penalty inside of 70 yards is a kick at goal, or at least it seems that way.

Busby wrote:

Redcanuck wrote:

Opening ceremonies on here now.  Now much of a rugby fan but did end up watching a lot the year England won.  Actually started to understand the strategy by the final.  Seems it is all about field position.  Will catch a few games if it dosen't clash with the football.

It's great tactically and strategically because it's all about controlling the ball.  The tactical kicking game is what gets me now.  Especially with SA...any penalty inside of 70 yards is a kick at goal, or at least it seems that way.

You won't see many 50+ metre kicks in England in September. It will be very rare. Group stage games are all about offence as well. When the knockout stage comes that's when you'll see a lot of kicking.

Red: Think of territory like possession in soccer. The more you have of it the better, BUT at the end of the day it all depends on what you do with it.

Also, if you're watching the England game, Fiji's first try was absolutely beautiful. They win the scrum from England, use their forwards to move the ball over while drawing more English players in, and then use the kick and chase to perfection. I could watch that all day long.

Fiji giving England a real go. Talk before the game was that England playing their only easy opponent first was not good for England's games agaisnt the likes of Wales and Austrailia.

Looked at the odds and you could get 66-1 on a Fiji win, huge upset whether England hang on or not.

Uruguay is their easiest game.

Fiji are a good tier 2 team. They are not easy. They also have one of the best 7's teams in the world.

Look at the size of their #11. lol - That is not easy to play against. I read he's 6ft. 4in. 20 stones and can run like the wind.

So was that a good result? Was close for the longest time and Fiji missed a couple of kicks. England pulling away in the late stages.

Obviously points or tries scored will make a difference in the finally group standings?

Redcanuck wrote:

So was that a good result?  Was close for the longest time and Fiji missed a couple of kicks. England pulling away in the late stages.

Obviously points or tries scored will make a difference in the finally group standings?

That is a good result for England. It's a typical game between two teams who are in different tiers. Usually these games between tier 1 and tier 2, or tier 2 and tier 3 teams are fairly close up until the hour mark. Then the fitness, depth, and experience of the better squad prevails. Watch the Canada Ireland game tomorrow. The whole game will change around the hour mark. That's when Ireland will start to score easy looking tries.

Points and tries scored do matter. But Wales has a couple of really good players out. Halfpenny is arguably their best player, and he's one of them. England just have to take care of business with that game - which they should - and points and tries scored won't matter.

Canada getting hammered here Candy, 29-0. So much for a close game til the hour mark.

Ya. Canada is struggling really bad. Have been for the last year or so. If we don't beat Romania and have a good showing against Italy they may have to sack Crowley.

WHAT AN UPSET BY JAPAN! HOLY F%&&^!

I thought nothing could ever beat that upset of France over New Zealand back in 1999, but this takes the cake. The most epic neutral atmosphere I've ever seen my word!

SA are just going backwards in the world of Rugby. They still believe in neanderthal rugby. Big hulky man get ball and run straight, fall down, recycle the ball and repeat. There is no expansion or width to their game. It's straight and narrow and predictable. Their players never look for offloads, and they spend way to much time and energy in rucks with their forwards. A team that moves the ball fast and wide, and has quick moving forwards, always has a chance to beat them.

Yeah Japan aren't exactly a big side and have to use width in order to play their opponents. But 12 penalties is a lot for SA. I mean you can't win if you turn over the ball 11 times and conceded that many penalties...

I still can't believe me eyes. I'm in shock. That had to be one of the best rugby matches I had ever seen

The writing has been on the wall for SA for a while now. The rugby championship you could see it when they lost to Argentina. Full credit to Japan, but south Africa are their own worst enemies. With ball in hand they are un-focused, and very poor always giving away possession.

Just watched the Canadian game. fucking Jamie Cudmore. Our bloody captain, and most experienced player takes an absolutely useless yellow card. We played well for 18 minutes and then he does that and they score 19 easy points. That guy should know better than that. He's a pro that has won a lot in his career.

Candy...explain why some teams aren't even contesting opposing line-outs?

Has the strategy changed so much that they just don't bother or is there another reason? Seems to be a pointless exercise.

Also...the rules of the scrum have, I'm sure, improved player health, but done fuck all for watchability. I will say I'm enjoying the second and third phase play much more than before. Way more interesting match ups and strategy.

The scrum is much much better now. Less dicking around wasting time to try and get it right. The scrum is still relevant Imo. It's a good way to re-start the game. If you don't like kicking then you have to like the scrum. No scrum means either tap-and-go, or kick for touch to get the lineout.

As for the lineouts. Do you mean there's no defending players at all in the lineout? Or they just don't go up for it?

Candy_Line_Up wrote:

The scrum is much much better now. Less dicking around wasting time to try and get it right. The scrum is still relevant Imo. It's a good way to re-start the game. If you don't like kicking then you have to like the scrum. No scrum means either tap-and-go, or kick for touch to get the lineout.

As for the lineouts. Do you mean there's no defending players at all in the lineout? Or they just don't go up for it?

That they just don't go up for it.  I noticed Argentina contested them vs NZ, but in the game with Georgia, neither side was contesting the opposing line outs.  I just wondered if it was a tactical play in that it was really rare to steal a line out from the throw.

As for the scrum, I totally agree that its better.  Way less collapses and wheeling.  I just miss the huge collision (which is what I meant for watchability)...before the "crouch, touch, pause, engage" which has been replaced by "crouch, bind, set" evidently.

I don't know if you know this, but when there is a lineout the team with ball in hand will have a player(usually their most experienced) who will yell out a set of numbers, letters, or codes. This will tell everyone where the thrower is going to throw the ball, and cue everyone's movements in the lineout. If the defending team hasn't caught on to these call outs they are literally just guessing where the ball is going to go. So it makes it really difficult to get a guy in the air. One of the dangers to just guessing is that you will have 2 guys picking one guy up to try and steal the line out, but the throw might go short right to the first guy in line, and he'll break up field as the defending team has 3 useless players now(one in the air, 2 holding him up). So the safe thing to do is just line up beside the team and keep your defensive line.

It also would be a good tactic if you have a defending lineout deep in your own 22, and you know the attacking team is going to use their maul. Just get everyone on their feet ready to set up and push.

Candy_Line_Up wrote:

I don't know if you know this, but when there is a lineout the team with ball in hand will have a player(usually their most experienced) who will yell out a set of numbers, letters, or codes. This will tell everyone where the thrower is going to throw the ball, and cue everyone's movements in the lineout. If the defending team hasn't caught on to these call outs they are literally just guessing where the ball is going to go. So it makes it really difficult to get a guy in the air. One of the dangers to just guessing is that you will have 2 guys picking one guy up to try and steal the line out, but the throw might go short right to the first guy in line, and he'll break up field as the defending team has 3 useless players now(one in the air, 2 holding him up). So the safe thing to do is just line up beside the team and keep your defensive line.

It also would be a good tactic if you have a defending lineout deep in your own 22, and you know the attacking team is going to use their maul. Just get everyone on their feet ready to set up and push.

OK right. That makes sense. I have noticed that a lot of teams seem to be swtiching up the number of lineout players present...moreso than back in the 90s when I was an avid watcher of Rugby. I've enjoyed the games evolution.

Sorry Candy, I posted a rugby comment in the EPL thread THEN I noticed a separate rugby thread!!

You are dead right about the Boks though. The writing has been on the wall for a while. The poor result in the Rugby Championship this year, the home loss to Argentina. The loss to Wales and Ireland in the fall tour. They only just pipped England too. I think your observation re 'old style' is very apt. In the Japan game, I don't remember Habanas name being called once in the entire 80 minutes!! Un-fucking -believable! One of the best wings in the world never gets the ball. Together with the old style, is the issue with the old guard. Although they have been absolute troopers for the Boks, Matfield, Schalk Burger and Jean Devilliers need to fuck off gracefully. We have much better, younger talent that need to be given their chance. Another WC tournament for these lot is just sentimental shite.

I expect a full clearance of coaching staff after this, because I don't think it will be much better. I expect that Samoa and Scotland will have smelled the blood and will not be easy either. I hope I am wrong, but SA Rugby is likely beginning an inexorable decline that may take a decade to recover from. There is just too much pressure being brought to bear by the Activist Politicians to 'make' the team representative of the racial make-up of the country rather than merit alone. This performance will surely aid their cause.

Unless SA make it to the Final Meyer will be sacked.

I do agree that the old guard has to be sent on it's way.

But the game plan, and the neanderthal Afrikaans mentality has to go asap. No matter if their young or old, or Black or white, the ball will never be moved out wide, and they will never expand their game. It will always be one pass, run straight, ruck, rinse and repeat. The game has changed so much in the last decade and is moving away from this mentality (the Kiwis have even petitioned to IRB a while back to ban the maul). Even friggin Canada look good when they get some possession because they look to move the ball out wide, have overlaps, and even have dummies running through. SA do none of this which makes it easy to defend against.

Watch New Zealand play. That is the future, and the bloody now. Fast, versatile forwards that can move the ball, with fast versatile backs who always look to pass, and are very good at offloads. They also have an amazing kick and chase game that puts teams under massive pressure. It's all about speed and attack!!


Etzebeth, De Allende, Le Roux, and Vermeulen are all in the starting 15 this weekend. That's an improvement right there.


As for Canada. They have named a strong side to face Italy. Italy are missing a couple of good players due to injury. Italy are still better than us, but If, and that's a big IF, Canada can play very well on the day, and limit their mistakes, they could nick this one from Italy.

Don't know if this link will work. But here's what the Boks need to learn how to do. Watch the offload by SBW. He's the best in the world at it.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/video/98553

This all comes from playing Rugby League. It's a beautiful skill, and when you can get good at it it's deadly to opponents. It basically is giving an attacking player a free 5-10 metres to run because of the 2-3 players it takes to make the tackle.

I think you are right re the Boks strategy of stodgy, hard-nosed forward drive play as being the underpinning of their game. It has been so for a long time and many South Africans have spoken out about it for years. I am not in favour of 'banning the maul' at all. It rankles that the NZ team would even bring this up. They have been victimized by it a few times against the Boks!! It is part of the game and has actually produced many memorable tries through the years. It has a beauty of it's own. The Japanese used it very well and scored a great try against Scotland too.

This weekend is going to be great. A true test for the Boks against Samoa who undoubtedly smell blood. And an absolute war with England and Wales. Can't wait.